#21: Feel It to Heal It with Frits Van Den Heuval Van Varik

LIFEWISE SHOW #21
FEEL IT TO HEAL IT WITH FRITS VAN DEN HEUVAL VAN VARIK
TRANSCRIPTON

Speaker 1: Tania Cotton, Lifewise Host (00:00:02):
Welcome again to the LifeWise Show where we explore the things in life that make you feel truly alive. Today I'm with Frits Van Den Heuvel Van Varik, who has spent 35 years on the front lines as a first responder with the Marine Corps, the Amsterdam Police, the Amsterdam Fire Department, and in youth work. At just 18, Frits was already working with young people from disadvantaged neighbourhoods in Boston as a sports instructor. It was there he saw something that stayed with him for life. When a young person receives genuine positive attention, when someone simply sees them, listens to them, and believes in their potential, something shifts. Even teenagers who felt they had no prospects began to open up, take part and imagine a different future. It was his first real glimpse of the power we each carry to awaken human potential in one another. By 23, he was deployed to Cambodia as a platoon commander for the United Nations with the Royal Netherlands Marine Corps.
(00:01:10):
There he confronted the stark realities of life in a mission area. The intensity of those experiences combined with his youth and the emotional tools he didn't yet have set him on a long inner struggle and a deep search for understanding. Over time he discovered something essential. We all carry the same inner wisdom and authentic strength, but the way we handle our backpack filled with the beautiful, the difficult, and the traumatic is what shapes our lives. He came to see that his backpack wasn't a burden to hide, but one of his greatest teachers filled with the lessons that ultimately strengthened both his resilience and deepened his authenticity. Today Frits leads Basecamp after transforming his own life through breathwork, cold exposure, stress regulation, connection with nature and deep self-awareness, Frits now supports others on that journey. He founded Basecamp to give people a safe experiential space to reconnect with who they really are. Together with his team of highly qualified facilitators, he helps individuals feel more whole, more grounded and more aligned with who they want to be and with their deepest values. Participants learn to use practical tools to turn mental and emotional challenges, no matter how intense, into a source of strength they can use to build meaningful relationships and live life with greater purpose. I am here today with Frits in the Netherlands, having just participated in a three-day Basecamp retreat. Frits, welcome to the LifeWise Show.
Speaker 2: Frits Van Den Heuval Van Varik, LifeWise guest (00:03:01):
Thank you so much, Tania. It's such a pleasure to be here with you.
Speaker 1 (00:03:06):
The whole journey of meeting you, I find it hard to believe. I've only known you for almost two years. It feels like a lifetime! and I feel like I've been on another journey of a lifetime in just three days, of a journey I could never have anticipated. And I think for everyone it was very different and very valuable. And there was an incredible bond between every one of the participants at the end that is hard to explain. And I should say that from my standpoint, because I was the only non-Dutch person in that group, and yet I really felt part of a warm, loving, sharing, caring community that you, with Maxim and Hilbrand really brought together in a very special way. Just tell me what was your inspiration? I mean, when was the moment that you decided and why was it that you began BaseQamp?
Speaker 2 (00:04:19):
First of all, thank you so much for your beautiful introduction and what you mentioned. I find it very, very strange every time I go for BaseQamp and connecting from the heart and time disappears, it seems like we were there for ages together and the bonding is so beautiful and for me it's heartfelt and that's such a beautiful thing. But the first time actually, I was thinking about BaseQamp, it came to me when I was rock bottom in a way, really hard for me to deal with my own backpack and with my own emotions, which were far, far away. And the moment I started thinking about BaseQamp, because BaseQamp, the name comes from defense - Base Camp, when we are going to a mission area, we always have a Base Camp. And in this Base Camp, it's really important that it's safe so you can prepare all your stuff like your backpack, like your food, like your ammunition, like your orders and prepping yourself.
(00:05:36):
And when you go outside the Base Camp, it's potentially hostile. And I was thinking to myself and feeling one time when I did a deep breathing and I had no experience with breathing, I found that this Base Camp is also inside of me. And I got curious about my own Base Camp and I was led to my heart. And it was really strange because I didn't know this place before, because I was living in my head all the time. But at that moment I really engaged with my heart and I was feeling this is my true Base Camp where I can be safe in my own place and even I can be safe in unsafe conditions. And from that moment on, I was exploring it and I took it from there. And it was a big, big journey and it still is a journey for sure.
Speaker 1 (00:06:35):
I think that's it. It's the life journey, but that life journey is an opportunity to explore. So, you mentioned breathwork. Can you remember that first breathwork experience, who it was with, where it was? Tell us a little bit more about that. I think there's a lot of misunderstanding about breathwork as if it's just breathing.
Speaker 2 (00:07:00):
It was really a beautiful encounter and I'm living here in a small village in the Netherlands and I got a new neighbour and he was introducing him to myself and he said, I'm Andre, I'm your new neighbour. And the first thing he mentioned, you want to do a breathing with me? And I thought he was crazy. And I thought the breathing, I'm breathing already - with no experience with breathwork whatsoever. And I said, no, I won't do it. And the next day he came to me again and then he said, I'm the twin brother of Wim Hof.
(00:07:40):
And that made me curious because Wim was doing all those kind of stuff and as a Marine, all those challenges he came to. And I thought, okay, I'll give it a shot. And then I invited Andre in my house. It was really awkward because he said, you have to lay down on your couch. I didn't know the man, but I did and I surrendered and I did a breathing, the Wim Hof breathing. And at that moment, Tania, it was the first time that my body went on ease and I felt relaxation and it was profound and it made me so curious and I couldn't place it in a way, but it made me curious. And that's the moment that I made a deep dive into the breathwork, cold exposure and everything that came along. And it was such a journey. And I was 50 at the time. I'm now 57. And from that moment on, I am totally on. And especially what you can do with breathwork is profound, Tania.
Speaker 1 (00:08:52):
I think it's extraordinary in life when you think that you've got it all worked out and what's going to happen and then a chance encounter just like me meeting you in Canada by a lake, by a frozen lake where there's a hole cut in - but that's another story, that can change your life. And what I hope through this podscast, for those of you who are listening - just as it sparked Frits's curiosity and yet he felt slightly awkward, it opened him up to new territory and new feelings. I hope that some of you who listen or many of you who listen to this podcast will just have the courage to ‘have a go’, to just try it. It's just breathing!
(00:09:39):
Imagine what it could give you, but there is nothing - there's no way it can't serve you. So that's my invitation to all of you who are listening now and really how we are beginning this story with curiosity and really saying that we are all explorers and I feel as long as we're open to exploring, life can surprise you. And sometimes when you're in a dark place, it can offer you, it can offer you light.
Now I find it amazing, Frits, how you have such an incredible team of facilitators, of people working with you. I'm actually not so surprised now because Frits is somebody who can walk up to anybody and he immediately allows them to feel like an old friend. He treats everyone as if they are a friend and it's so natural to him. Yet, Frits, how did you find the right people? So for example, Maxime, tell us a little about him
Speaker 2 (00:10:43):
Now with the knowledge I have, I truly feel that it's not coincidence, but it's like a synchronicity meeting people. But I was not aware of it because I'm living here in an area nearby a mental institute and I'll do some volunteer work at the Mental Institute here, helping people, supporting people with psychosis. And I'm dancing with the clients, which give me a lot of joy as well. It's really funny to do that. And at one time Maxime was there and he's a psychologist at the facility and I was preparing for my first BaseQamp. I think it's now three years ago. I didn't have any team. I was creating the BaseQamp and I think it was two weeks before we had the first BaseQamp. I didn't have a team whatsoever. I was by myself. I said, oh my God, how am I going to do this?
(00:11:44):
And then Maxime showed up and I said to him, Hey Maxime, you want to join me doing first BaseQamp? And he was looking at me in his big blue eyes, he has great big blue eyes and I was looking in his eyes and he said immediately, ‘Yes’, and we didn't know each other, but we felt a really strong connection. And also with the other team members it went the same way. And this is such a beautiful thing that when your intention is so pure, then the form will appear to you. And this is one of my biggest lessons to surrender. And yeah, this is beautiful.
Speaker 1 (00:12:24):
And I think you've been working with Maxime ever since. How many years is that now?
Speaker 2 (00:12:29):
It's around. I'm really bad at times, but I think it's three years now,
Speaker 1 (00:12:35):
Three to four years. And if you saw them together too, you would just think they were brothers, the closest of brothers. There is a very small special bond between Frits and Maxime. You will hear more about Maxime in the next podcast so we will leave that story there.
So who is BaseQamp open to? Do you have special BaseQamps for individual groups with the same backgrounds or is BaseQamp open to everybody? The group that I was with was incredibly varied. You can even share about the one we have just done?

Speaker 2 (00:13:13):
In the first time. I started BaseQamp within defense for operators from the special forces and we had around 200 operators one month in BaseQamp at the retreat.
Speaker 1 (00:13:51):
That's great. So you started in defense and it seems to me now you've opened it up to the general public? So, people like myself. There were lots of people from all sorts of backgrounds. There was one wonderful lady there who had a disability with her legs that was very difficult, who you had known I think since you were very young. There was somebody there who had been in your platoon when you went to Cambodia - and we will dive into your story later. And there were some very young people there and I thought that was so brave. How did these young people get the courage and learn how they could participate?
Speaker 2 (00:14:39):
Yeah, this is really interesting because I truly believe that diversity is a big strength in groups and all the people, young people, women, and they carry their own backpacks and they have their own challenges in life and their own life potential. But what we are connected by is our heart strength and our peace of soul, which is inside of us. And this is what I truly feel, that it doesn't matter if you are a woman or a man or old or young, we all have our own challenges. It's universal and the diversity is such a strong thing because you learn so much from each other. And yeah, that's a strength.
Speaker 1 (00:15:23):
It was absolutely a strength within this group. There was even a time you had somebody there called Hilbrand, a remarkable facilitator - I actually would like you to share with our audience what he does, but there was one time when he actually separated us into male and female and then into different ages, but we weren't allowed to talk, so we had to sort of guess each other's ages. I was a little bit shocked. I was the oldest woman and I didn't feel it. So yes, and the diversity was so rich, I felt we all learned so much from each other and so much from this session we did with Hilbrand. Can you just introduce Hilbrand to us and what he does?
Speaker 2 (00:16:16):
Yeah. Hilbrand was also in connection, like meeting with Maxime it was actually the same. I met him during a session in Defense where he does Constellation work. And the first time I walked up to him, we didn't shake hands, which I usually do, but we were standing in front of each other and we were looking in each other's eyes and then we saw each other. And this was also a really profound moment and it took about two minutes. We were standing in front of each other without saying a word. And after that we hugged each other and it was all good. And since then he does the Constellation work within BaseQamp. He's from originally South Korea and he has a lot of knowledge about Systemic Work because we are all living in a system, our own system, your body, your mind, your soul, but also in a family system, organisation system, a nation system and a world system. And it comes all together and he's such a great guy who can explain it where your system is working and what effect it has on you. And yeah, it's profound.
Speaker 1 (00:17:42):
It was truly profound. So yes, I hope some of you get to experience this at BaseQamp or somewhere else.

So let us wind the clock back now and I'd like to take a look at your incredible life journey and what's brought you to this point. And I've always loved the John Wooden saying, ‘A good coach can change a game, but a great coach can change a life’. And that's what I think of when I meet you and I spend time with you. And then when I hear about your journey, of when you were 18 and you were in Boston working with disadvantaged kids. First of all, how did you get from the Netherlands to Boston? Where did that opportunity come from and tell us about that experience.
Speaker 2 (00:18:29):
It's funny you say that because I'm thinking about that period in my life as well because I still was young, I was 18 years old, but I always had the drive to go to summer camps in the United States. I always wanted to visit the United States. I don’t know exactly why, but it was also a big challenge for me to go on my own and to support young people. But with the knowledge, again now I was a hurt guy myself and I think I wanted to help myself by helping other people. This is what you see many, many times in life that you go helping other people where you need to help yourself. But I went there and it was beautiful because I was a coach and I did the sports facility and like you mentioned in the introduction, it's unbelievable that those guys from inner cities, from Boston, a lot of criminals as well, but if you are really genuine to them, it was a game changer for me at that age. I never realised it, but I took it with me through all my career and I always had the urge to support young people, but I wasn't able really to do that then because I was a hurt myself. But now I am there with my inner child and myself and now I'm able to really support the young people as well. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:20:10):
So yes. Tell us about that hurt. I mean, did you feel seen as a child?
Speaker 2 (00:20:22):
I was really lonely as a child. I always had the idea, I had to do it by myself, not aware of it because when I look at my dad and my mom, my dad was really absent during my youth. He had also an alcohol problem and he was away many times because he was busy with work. And my mom, she was sweet, but she was emotional disengaged because she lost both of her parents when she was 16 years old. So she was not really able to back us up with emotional stuff. So I always had the feeling I have to do it by myself. It made me tough in a way. And I was really strong. My body is strong, so I got my recognition with sports. So I did do track and field at the time when I was 14 years old, 15 years old, and I became almost Dutch champion on the a hundred meter and long jump.
(00:21:34):
But I really have this memory about it because I was winning every game with track and field. And then we went to England for a contest and I thought, I'm going to win this, I'm going to nail this. But I became last and I never had that experience. And I went to my coach and I was 16 at that age. I said, coach, I never want to feel this again. And I never did track and field again. So I threw away my talent because I hadn't learned how to deal with disappointments. And no, I had no resilience at all.
Speaker 2 (00:22:35):
I was disengaging difficulties in my life. And so I was not able to go to my emotions and deal with my own stuff. So I always wanted to do things where I'm good at and if I had disappointment, I went searching for other things.
Speaker 1 (00:23:17):
And now the journey of when life doesn't give you what you expect or what you feel will nourish you but instead hurts you. What has been the biggest step to you, even the first step to you being able to actually build this incredible resilience you have now?
Speaker 2 (00:23:49):
It's many, many puzzle pieces. It's not just one thing. And I truly believe in my own life that it is all puzzles, and the puzzle will not end until we die. So, it's a life process. And this is what I like also because if you know that it is a life challenge, you're not searching for the quick fix anymore or the silver bullet we used to see in defense, but it's a lifetime process. And at one point you go like, okay, it's all puzzle pieces and it's all about consciousness, building up consciousness and awareness and that gives you also the resilience we need in life. And yeah, that's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (00:24:42):
So before we talk about you joining the Royal Marine Corps, I'd like to ask, were there any other disappointments or challenges or traumatic experiences that you endured before that point?
Speaker 2 (00:24:59):
Yeah, and I remember when I was 16, I was hitchhiking through Europe by myself. I thought I was big and strong and a man and I was hitchhiking and on one of my rides, one guy attacked me in a car and I experienced sexual abuse, and I couldn't deal with it. So I never spoke about it and I felt ashamed. I felt guilty and I put it in my backpack without any feelings to it. And it's since now seven years before I spoke and spoke it out and felt it. And yeah, so many challenges in life and also with the marines we're talking about later, many things I was not able to handle and I put it all in my backpack.
Speaker 1 (00:25:55):
And what made you decide to join the Marines? Where did this idea and this decision come from?
Speaker 2 (00:26:04):
I always was looking in life for extremities with my sport. And at that time you had to go into the services in the Netherlands and I was looking around and I said, okay, I want to be a marine guy or I want to be a commando because it will give me recognition from the outside world. If I go to an elite force, then I will get recognition and maybe from my dad as well so my dad can be proud of me. And when I was 21, 22 and I was looking at my dad and he never gave me a hug, Tania never. He never did it and he never said, ‘I'm proud it for you’. So I was searching for this recognition in the outside world and this is what we see all the time with a lot of people. So this is why I choose for the Marines. And I remember Tania the first time I went there, it was really hard to get there, but when I was there the first day they said, oh, you can switch off your emotions. You don't need any emotions with the Marines. And I thought, okay, I'm in a good place. I never learned it, so I know how to do that. So let's go. And then I started this period with the Marines.

Speaker 1 (00:27:27):
That's where I met you because When I met you in Canada, I met you with another Royal Marine Wouter. I met you with a doctor Marcus Besemann for the special forces working with veterans and first responders and Mary Marcolin who's a psychotherapist. But we were all gathered by François Hamann who looks at how you can make decisions, how we can make good decisions in very stressful environments. And with the work he was doing, particularly focused on cold immersion, I got a sense from him this was just one way you could give a big stress to the system and learn through the breath and other things, how to manage that kind of stress. And he came to me first and then introduced me to you all saying, I'm doing this for the military and the soldiers really need this and they really want this and this has got to be the new way of connecting people to their whole body.
(00:28:38):
You cannot cut yourself off from the neck and operate with your 5% conscious brain and just push through all these challenges without listening to your body. So that was really, yes, that is something that you were very involved with how you could change how soldiers are trained and how people function in the world. Because it's not just within the military, it's in the world that we learn, especially in the modern western world, that we learn to cut our emotions off and function from that little tiny 5% headspace of the conscious brain. So when you were in the Marine Corps, you got sent on a very tough mission, I think at the age of 23, but tell us about that mission and where you went and the challenges that you had to face.
Speaker 2 (00:29:34):
Yeah, after I finished my officer's training and we all get trained to lead platoons all over the world in shitholes. And I must say that the training is really good and the protocols are really good and it's really tough and they prepare you in a good way, make your body strong physically and mentally so you'll be prepared physically and mentally for your job to do. And when I finished this training, I was sent immediately to Cambodia and it was in a time in 1991, long time, it's the history books, but it seems like yesterday and it's really funny, but it's all about intensity I guess. But we were sent there and I had my platoon and a platoon is about 30 guys. And we were sent there and I was sitting in the plane, I remember, and I was looking around me and I thought, okay, we can handle this.
(00:30:35):
They all had the Marine training - all tough marines, and we all nailed this. And then the first day I can remember, Tania, that we were in our area, and Poppo was still alive at that time and he was in the northeast of Cambodia, and we were in that area to make sure that the first democratic elections took place and we had to take over from the Bangladeshi army who didn't do anything in that area. But we were very engaged and very responsible to do our job in a good way. But the first day we went there, you always make sure you establish a Base Camp and that everybody knows when the shit hits the fan, everybody knows their positions. And the first night we got fired on, we got shot on and light tracers all over the place and we were attacked on the first night.
(00:31:37):
Then I had this realisation from, okay, you cannot learn this from the book. They will tell you about it, what it is to engage, but when it truly happens, it's, it's a different story and it's really hard to put words on it. But I remember that I told myself and I did the good thing and I was engaging with my platoon and I became really, really calm. And so the training physically, mentally is really good. But then when it was over the next day we went on patrol and then we found out there were a lot of illegal guys getting money from the local people and they were killing them all the time if they didn't pay and we had to investigate it. And there was one body we found on the ground and I thought, okay, this is the first dead body we'll encounter. I get my whole platoon here and let them see what dead people look like.
(00:32:53):
And I told them, okay guys, this is, we are now in day two and we will engage this more often. So look at this, that guy, and this is what we encounter for the coming six months because it was a mission for six months, which was seven months actually. It was a long, long mission, but I had no clue Tania about dealing with those shit shows because physically, mentally, but emotionally and awareness - zero. So all those experience went in my backpack, but also in the backpacks from my guys - and not able to deal with it.
Speaker 1 (00:33:36):
And tell me how old were the other people in the platoon that you were taking care of?
Speaker 2 (00:33:45):
I think seven, eight guys, 18 years. I think the youngest was even 17 years old at the time. And then I had some staff a little older than me, like 35. So the oldest was 35 and the youngest was 17, 18 years.
Speaker 1 (00:34:04):
And you were 23?
Speaker 2 (00:34:05):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (00:34:06):
And was it that you had more training than say some of the older members of your team?
Speaker 2 (00:34:12):
Yeah, they call it the officers training. So this is really hard training because you learn to be in an environment, a stressful environment, and you have to lead your platoon so you cannot follow, you have to lead. So it means that you have to be always on and responsible for your platoon. And yesterday you mentioned in the introduction with the Hilbrand about responsibilities and age, and now I was sitting also in the older seats like you also confronting, and I was looking at the younger guy like 24, like the age I had when I went to Cambodia, but I had so much responsibility about life and death responsible for 30 guys. And I thought, oh my god, that's a big responsibility. And it hit me in a way.
Speaker 1 (00:35:12):
And I found it very powerful that actually in the room was a member who had been in your platoon there. And how old is he now?
Speaker 2 (00:35:22):
He is now, he was 18 at the time, so he's now 53.

Speaker 1
And Hilbrand actually did some constellation work with us in that room. And there was actually my ‘buddy’ because we all had buddies, my buddy asked to share something - that he had lost his father when he was 12, and his mother when he was around 21. And Hilbrand got you to lie on the ground on a sheet and got four other men either side of you to put the shroud over you and the guy who was in your platoon who you had been commander with when he was only 18 - I could see it. He looked at you and it really moved him. And then he shared with you, what did he share with you?
Speaker 2 (00:36:20):
There was a special moment because the first thing he said, ‘Frits, when I look back at our time in Cambodia, I want to say I would have died for you.’ And it hit me hard. And then he said, ‘I saw you lying on the floor being dead.’ And he said, ‘You look like a Pharaoh.’ A Pharaoh, a Pharaoh, yeah, an Egyptian Pharaoh. Egyptian Pharaoh. Yeah, I felt dead in a way, but it was really strange to be in a constellation like that. But yeah, with Bert it was so strange because we were in such different relationship at that time, led by the head, not by the heart, but led by the head. And it was such a difference. And it's so beautiful to see him opening up and he's seeing me opening up and deepening our connection and
Speaker 1 (00:37:22):
Yeah, I think we could all feel it. And for him, this man who'd been through so much since he was 18, and you well all your life really, and I'm sure for him as well, there's so much we don't know even before that time, but that very intense experience you share and this relationship that you have shared through your life, you've kept in touch, but somehow, wow, the closeness, there was really a heart to heart sharing between you both over those days and you were the facilitator and he had the trust to come to be part of that group, it must have taken enormous courage.
So the pressure of always being on that hypervigilance, I mean that must have been, especially with so much responsibility on your shoulders that, I mean, who could you share these experiences with and was there a sense of being alone or did you feel you could share or did you feel isolated
Speaker 2 (00:38:35):
At that time? I was lonely in my youth and I was also lonely at the Marines. And as a platoon commander, you are always by yourself. The guys, they live in a tent with seven, eight together and as a platoon commander, you're by yourself in a tent, so no way to share. So you had to deal with it by yourself all the time. But at that time, Tania, I thought it was okay, it was normal. So I had my own strategy and my own coping mechanism not to feel, I wasn't able to feel at that time, but it helped me through it.
(00:39:15):
But it came with a big cost, Tania, because when you are not able to deal with your experiences, it will come into your backpack and it will be a burden. And this is what I experienced throughout my life. And again, you don't have to be a military to experience this because everyone has his own war and peace zone in his system and we all have to deal with it by ourselves. But I hadn't the tools and I wish I had somebody to tell me the tools, but then again, it's also my life path and I was 50 to discover it. And everyone is the same of their own age in a way, their own life path.
Speaker 1 (00:40:05):
So I spoke of Marcus Besemann earlier – we had met in Canada. First of all, he works with first responders and veterans and with those who have suffered from severe PTSD And he talks about the importance of the brotherhood that when you've been through such intense experiences that your brother will die, you will die for your brother. And it's hard I think for us who haven't been in war zones like this to really, really appreciate that. And then Marcus has talked about when people come back from mission to the real world in that, then the shock is that it's just ‘every man for himself’. And then yeah, it's just all about ‘me’ and not about ‘we’.
Can you talk to me just a little bit as we round off this little period of your life, but that has really accompanied you and actually made you who you are and able to have an impact on people like Bert and myself and all the people that are in that room on the importance of that sharing and caring, and what that brotherhood means to you?
Speaker 2 (00:41:37):
Yeah, the brotherhood within the Marines is always really, really strong and that's really a good thing. But during wartime, yes, literally we will die for each other. But after the brotherhood always, it's a lot of drinking, Tania, it's a lot of putting away the feelings because we are not able to deal with it. So with the brotherhood comes a lot of bars, clubs and stuff, which it's not good in the long run in a way. And for me, brotherhood comes really together when we put also emotional awareness and self-awareness to it, and then we create a different brotherhood.
Speaker 1 (00:42:28):
So that really hits the nail on the head. I mean now your life focus is on giving people the real tools, not in suppressing their emotions through alcohol or any kind of addiction or drugs, but what are the real tools that connect you to yourself and to your heart? And I think that was the biggest surprise for me that first day when I met you in Canada and I walked with you and I walked with Wouter who also works in the Marines -. when you both spoke about your journey of being very disconnected from your emotions. I heard you talk in a way that I've never heard, especially anyone from the military, talk about how through the breathwork, it helped you feel for the first time and really connect with your heart. And I thought, ‘WOW! I've never heard many men let alone these tough military guys talk about connecting with their heart!’
(00:43:32):
And it made me so curious that you were so open and able to talk to me, and also A woman, about it, and it was something real. And it's almost like when you spoke about it, you spoke about it with such a richness that this is more precious and valuable than any medication, drugs, alcohol or other emotional suppressing thing or perhaps even then any talk therapy, because we always looking for an outside fix. Suddenly you gave me the belief that you had found something inside of yourself and that you knew that you had the wisdom inside yourself to heal yourself. I don’t know if you can remember, we were walking in the forest at the back of Marcus Besemann’s house and I listened, and I will never forget the moment because it's so impressed me, it had an impact on me. Do you have any reflections and thoughts on what I've just said?
Speaker 2 (00:44:38):
Yeah, for sure Tania and I remember that moment as well. And I always say that a true warrior is not about fighting, it's about engaging your true self. And I really discovered this and that you are not a whole, you are working on half performance when you are living physically and mentally. And when we put emotions and awareness to it, it becomes whole. And that I am able now to regulate my own system because I truly believe in self-restorative and self-healing powers. And this is what I like so much and this is why I'm also on in military because I'm still in military, to learn them about stress regulation and how you can regulate your own system and how you can prepare for missions. And I truly believe if we do that, we also engage with future warfare in a different way. And not just killing people, but connecting with people in difficult areas. And I know, and this is a long shot, but we are now planting seeds and this is my mission and I truly believe this and I feel it by myself and my Cambodia mission. It was a military mission, but it was also my personal mission to build me up where I'm now at this moment.
Speaker 1 (00:46:05):
And now you are preparing for another mission with an enormous number of tools available to you and available to share. So next year you will go to Iraq. How will this mission be different for you in your intention and in how do you feel you are going into it?
Speaker 2 (00:46:28):
It also came on my way and it is a long, long way because I wasn't thinking about any missions at my age now because usually when you are 57 you were not sent to a mission area again. But it came on my way and when I engaged it, I thought no, I felt I have to say this is good because the circle is round. I went to Cambodia with my head and I go to Iraq with my heart and the area Iraq and Iran for me it's really special ground over there because it's a pure civilization from 7,000 years old and it's really a shame and it's too bad. It's a shit show over there in Syria, Iraq, Iran, and we all know it, but in the essence it's a beautiful place and a lot of history and I always wanted to visit there, and this is for me a great opportunity to go there. And yes, I realise that it brings a lot of responsibility because I'm going there as a military guy, but it's an individual mission, so I go there, but I know for sure that I can engage with my heart and plant seeds over there. And yeah, it's a big adventure Tania for sure. And it's six months again, so it's also a long time and it will have impact, but I have full trust.
Speaker 1 (00:48:03):
And will you have your own platoon and will you have an opportunity to prepare them in terms of the tools that they have in their backpack?
Speaker 2 (00:48:12):
I don't have a platoon right there. I will be there as a liaison with local forces. So I mainly liaise with the Iraquis. But I find it very interesting because stripe meets stripe and I really look forward to also to learn from their history and not just being there as a fighting machine.
Speaker 1 (00:48:45):
And from your time in Cambodia with your platoon of 30, did 30 come back and those who did come back, are you still in contact with them?
Speaker 2 (00:48:59):
We all returned to the Netherlands, but yes, we still have contact. We have an App group, we don't see each other every day, but we're still in contact with each other. But one guy I think two years ago, he hanged himself and there was a shock to all of us and his name was Luki. And I got a call in the car I remember, and I think it was bad, he called me, he said, Frits Luki hanged himself. And it was a really shock for me. The first thing, I felt responsible still after so many years. And then a day later his wife called me, and his wife said, Frits, you were his platoon commander. Would you like to say something for the funeral? And my direct answer was, yes, sure I do it. And I talked to her and she told me that he was abused in his youth, big, big time. It was also a realisation that we all carried these backpacks, even when we go to the Defense and are sent out on missions. But the backpacks are heavy already and his backpack was way too heavy. So he ended his life and it was really special to be there with some platoon members at this funeral. Yeah, it was really intense.
Speaker 1 (00:50:29):
And the statistics around suicide is really shocking. I know in Canada, I think for every one person who dies out in the field, there are three people who commit suicide?
Speaker 2 (00:50:43):
Yeah, I went into that and I saw this article about it. Since 2001, the Americans lost till this day, 7,000 soldiers in combat and during the same period, 120,000 people committed suicide, Tania, 120,000. It's unreal. It's like seven people a day and it's such a big number and we need to do this and we need to get more understanding and preparing them for the job to do. Again, that's the mission.
Speaker 1 (00:51:32):
Definitely, the BaseQamp, in the sense that you've created it now to give people the real tools they need, and the listening and the understanding and the feeling and the connecting yet what should happen when people come back because you need almost that BaseQamp to yes, you need it the other end as well. So what would be your wish for all those veterans and first responders on the other side of those incredibly tense, difficult experiences?
Speaker 2 (00:52:07):
My biggest wish is to create awareness prior people go to the Defense and tell them the honest story and not just, it's a nice job and great and it's good for your civil work. And no, tell them the real story, the real deal, and prepare them in a good way. And what I mean by a good way is that we should train them physically, mentally, emotionally, and self-awareness. And then they can decide by themselves if they want to do it or not. And for me, this is the big challenge, and we need to do this.
Speaker 1 (00:52:49):
So I'm going to shift a little now from the war zones out there in the world that so many of us know about and don't live in the middle of it. What many of us do live, is in the middle of our communities where there is a lot of unrest and crime. And I kind of like to have a look at ‘criminal youth’. We can make lots of judgments about that. it's interesting how you shifted to the police academy and you've had a very strong interest and fascination with youth gangs that I think really is important for us to explore here, kind of perhaps to change our judgments around this.
Speaker 2 (00:54:06):
Yeah, I mean environments are so important to you. If you are born in the suburbs you almost don't have a choice and you always have a choice, for sure. But I went there to this area because I was really fascinated by the gang life, and I called the professor, and he invited me to come over to Los Angeles - at the time I was 27. And I went there, and it made such an impression on me because I also visited the gang area. I went there with the LAPD and I visited also prisons, and I talked to gang members who had lifetime sentence. And it made such a big impression on me because I asked him, do you feel sorry for what you did? And he told me, no, no, no, no. If I didn't shoot, they shoot me. So what can you do? But for those criminals, for me now with the knowledge I gain, I feel is that they are so much in the head and so much constructs and so much environment that they're so far away from their heart. And I truly believe if we can connect with them and I'm sure we can, then it will change their life. And yeah, it's really hard to explain that, but some people are so far from their hearts, and again, the door needs to be opened Tania at a small, small like this. How do you say that?
Speaker 3 (00:55:55):
Yeah, just a little crack.
Speaker 2 (00:55:56):
A little crack. If there is a little crack in the door, you can engage with them. But I found out in life as well that some people, they have shut the door totally. And then it's not possible to support them. And we have to be realistic about that as well. But if there's a little crack you can come in.
Speaker 1 (00:56:22):
Yes. You had this experience in Los Angeles with the gangs. And then you also have worked with gangs in Amsterdam as well. Was that very different, or do you just see the same? There are environments in which some young people get brought up in where it is almost inescapable. And I think Professor Paul Gilbert, who is an evolutionary psychologist, and he's also done probably more research on the art and science of compassion than any other. So compassion based therapy, he will say, ‘If I had been brought up in a gang, I wouldn't be the scientist and the researcher I am now.’ And he really emphasises that ‘context’ is absolutely critical. So, if we can work together to create enabling environments, and where there is a crack, we can allow that opening to happen in an environment where people feel safe. But is this kind of a ‘pie in the sky’ or - yet in Irish prisons, what we're seeing is that they're turning a system of punishment into a system of really unlocking people's human potential. And they have been really a bright light within the whole alliance of 37 prisons around Europe. Does this give you hope? And is this something you would like to be involved in?
Speaker 2 (00:58:02):
Yeah, this gave me goosebumps, Tania for sure, because I truly believe that. And like the Irish prison, you can use it as a transformable period for people who are in jail. That gives me a lot of hope. And yes, the contexts make a difference. I totally agree with that. And we can create different contexts for those people as well. But we need to work together. And if we create a tribe with the same intention, it’s not ‘the sky's the limit’, but ‘the universe is the limit.’
Speaker 1 (00:58:36):
Well, I have a little secret wish in my back pocket to introduce you to two incredible people from Irish Prisons. I won't say more than that, but watch this space on this podcast. I think we'll be hearing from Frits again, but we'll be meeting two inspirational people who've been on the inside and are changing things on the outside. So just closing what you were saying in Amsterdam, you actually went out of your way to recruit kids for municipal initiatives. So you we're looking at people in trouble actually becoming part of the solution rather than part of the problem - you've already done this?
Speaker 2 (00:59:24):
Yes, yes. And it was during my period at the police department and I was on the streets a lot of times and I was seeing that a lot of kids were living on the streets and I saw their potential. And I went also to kickbox places and neighbourhoods, where they were hanging around. And then I got into the position that we were able to deal with those kids. And I was thinking, ‘why not use those kids to solve the problem in a way?’ So what we did with my partner, Bonnie his name is, we went on the street and we went to those kids and we recruited them on the streets. But my HR manager, he got a little pissed on me. He said, Frits, those kids don't have any resumes and CV’s and stuff so, no, it's not possible. I mean we need those kids and they're open to it.
(01:00:27):
So we did that and it became a big success and we put them in front of us, those kids, and we were looking at their body language and you can tell if they are willing or not because I truly believe that the body will tell, the body's always honest, that I am sure. And so this is how we did it and we didn't spend many words to it, but looking them in the eyes and see if there's a crack in the heart so we can enter. And when we didn't see the crack, there was no way. And this is how we worked and it worked out really well.
Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
We want to see more of that. We want to see more of that. So the tools, we have in our backpacks of very difficult and very beautiful experiences and it's what makes us who we are. And we've talked about breathwork, we've talked about cold dipping. You've worked with Andre Hoff, Wim Hoff's brother, I think you know both of them now. And you actually do, I think something in Poland where you walk in the snow and you're all very cold. Do you want to mention anything about that?
Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
We are going in two weeks again, and it's really fun. And Andre comes and also Maxime and with a bunch of people. And it's amazing what we see there that we are hiking up on a mountain minus 10 degrees for six hours in our shorts and fully undressed. And it's unreal because when we are in focused on everything is possible and we will not be freezing. But when you get out of focus, and we also do that, yeah, you will start, get freezing. And this is the adaptive power of our bodies, but it's adaptive power of our hearts.
Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
Well, I'm very glad you've brought all these stress regulation tools out of defense and out into the world where we really need them too. Are there any other stress regulation tools, things that you have experienced that have made a big impact?
Speaker 2 (01:02:39):
So many. I mean, it's the nature walking, barefoot walking, earthing, discharging your body. It's being with horses, being with animals, being with friends, socialising the list is long and it's different for everyone. And for the one is breathwork key, and for the other one is horse riding key. So yeah, make sure you find your own relaxation and your own stress regulation.
Speaker 1 (01:03:11):
Yes, I've worked with horses with patients, with MovementWise. And seeing how horses amplify our state of being is incredible. I've worked both with people preparing for the Olympics for dressage, but I've worked with myself with someone because I was fascinated just how I can work with a horse in different ways depending on my state of being, that they will completely reflect that. And there's a connection through me connecting with myself. So anyone who really loves to be with animals, I would really highly recommend that.
I would love a little feedback on what can be a very controversial subject, yet I have learned that is incredibly powerful. And the research behind it is very impressive in terms of helping PTSD, addiction, anxiety and depression - psychedelics and plant medicine. And, of course, Maxime is not only a psychologist but a specialist in plant medicine so has taught us all a lot. But you have your own experience?
Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
Yeah, for sure, Tania. And I really believe plant medicine can be very supporting and it did for me as well. And I have also experienced with psilocybin. And yeah, that was a game changer I can say. And it was beautiful And I'm really glad there's more openness to it because it can really contribute to a lot of questions. And for me, you never get question or you never get answers to your questions, but you get insights. And they are really strong, and I think this is also our challenge in life, that you will not get any answers, but you get insights and you can deal with it what to come. So for me, this was really a game changer.
Speaker 1 (01:05:20):
Thank you for sharing that. Now this year you spoke at the European Peace Conference and I find that really beautiful just because of the person that you are. I feel you're capable of so much with the experience you have and with the person you are that it seems so right for you to be there. And also I think a lot of us, when we think of the military, we only think of war - I think often we don't think of peace. And I think everything you've done has been in the name of peace within the intention of peace. So what did you learn from that conference and what was your key message? What was your key takeaway that you'd like to share?
Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
What I learned, Tania, is being in the outside world with war and peace, that it all comes to true love through peace within ourselves. And when we are not engaging it, there will be always war fighting like Israel and Palestine. You see, it's war, it's peace, it's war, it's peace, it's war, it's peace. It's the dual world we live in. And the only way for me is to solve it, is that we can lower ourselves through the true love starting by ourself. And I call it also the non-dualistic world in a way. And when we engage our true love, we can send it to a dual world to establish peace for sustainability.
Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
And I seem to remember reading on one of the posts for the conference that you quoted, something like that conflict was something like unresolved pain within yourself. Yes. Can you tell me what you meant by that?
Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
Yeah. Well, when I keep it by myself because it's my truth and there's no such thing as the truth. So it's my truth. And what I find out is that like my youth experience, which I didn't feel the experience will come back in another story, but it's the same energy in a way. And it will come to you until you learn from it. And when you feel it and then it stops, then you break down the cycle. And when I look at my life, I see a lot of things happened, different stories, but same energy. And so it also goes for countries and countries are built up with people and people need to not need, but the challenge is to feel their own pain to resolve it. And when we do that, and this is also the heart coherence, and this is also what gives me hope, is 10% from a community, If it's heart coherence, you change the community. So this is why I always have hope within defense because if we can change 10% in Defense, living through heart coherence, we can change it. And it's also scientific. It's not ‘woo-woo’, it's scientific.
Speaker 1 (01:08:39):
Yes, the Heart Math and the heart coherence is a really, really interesting science that we need to become more familiar with and practice. And I love the Steve Covey saying that says, ‘Seek to understand before being understood’. And that listening to others and to yourself before reacting and finding the gap between stimulus and response is just so important. Is there anything from our conversation that you feel you would like to share with those out there who feel disconnected and to whom all of this may sound, just as you said, very woo woo, and what is all this about? Because you know what that feels like. You were there. And for those who I wish with my experience, I've had these three days and the experience I've had in getting to know you and Maxime and your team the last two years has really, really touched me. And I really want people to open that door, just create that little crack and be curious and let the light shine through.
For people who felt as numb and shut down as you, what do you say to them right now?
Speaker 2 (01:10:29):
I would say to them that it is your life path and that your own backpack you're carrying, it's your life force. And the only thing it needs is understanding by yourself and also seeking for support in the outside world. And you will be surprised that there will be a lot of support when you go shout it out. But also, I realised that a lot of people shouting out and there's no support. And I say to them that there's always one buddy waiting for you, and that's in your heart. So when you feel alone, now know that somebody is in your heart. It's your small self. I call it my inner warrior for me. But give it a name you would like. It can be your light, it can be an animal, it can be your smaller version of yourself. But when you knock on your heart, and like Tania said, if there's only a crack you can knock and always will be opened.
(01:11:45):
But do it in silence, this and then nothingness because we cannot find it in the outside world. But you find it within yourself and you need silence. You can be in nature, you can find a spot and knock on your heart and there it will be opened, and you'll find your piece of soul over there because we all carry this piece of soul. And your piece of soul is the same as my piece of soul. And this is where we recognise each other. This is where your true love is. And this is my safe place. This is my BaseQamp. My heart is my Base Camp. And I know that my piece of soul is waiting there all the time for me. But again, it needs nothingness. It needs silence to go there in full trust. And yes, it also take courage to go there because all your experience in your backpack needs to be felt one at a time. And yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:12:52):
Thank you Frits. Thank you. Now we have a tradition at the end of the podcast to ask two little questions. And I think I know the answer to the first one. So what is your favourite film?
Speaker 2 (01:13:08):
I'm glad you asked this question. It's Top Gun and I love this movie so much because I'm a wannabe fighter pilot, and I never went to the, how do you say, selection, because I was afraid that I didn't qualify because I was full of fear at the time when I was in the twenties. But the movie I thought I saw 30 times and I can, I know all the lines, ‘requesting fly by negative. Sir, the pattern is full. ‘Oh my God. Come on M, give me some pilot shit. I'm looking, I'm looking.’ I love the movie. And after Cambodia, I had my private pilot license and I treated that plane - It was a one single engine plane, but I treated it as a fighter plane and I had so much fun. Yeah,
Speaker 3 (01:14:06):
Is there a quote that moves you or that you love? Can you think of a quote?
Speaker 2 (01:14:40):
‘There's only one guru in life and that's yourself’. And ‘All your wisdom, all your insights, all your self-love, all your passion is within you, fully trusted in you.’
Speaker 1 (01:14:59):
Frits, thank you so much for this beautiful conversation and for all the incredible experiences we've all shared. You, your BaseQamp facilitators and your wider team of healthcare professionals and scientists as we try and look at how we can develop these tools and make them more widely available. And I really wish you an incredible mission. Taking your heart to Iraq and your BaseQamp mission, I would like to know, I'd like to share with the audience, within our podcast notes, how they can reach you and how those who would like to, can engage with you.
Speaker 2 (01:15:43):
First of all, Tania, thank you so much for this warm conversation and really warm. And thank you so much for that. You can find BaseQamp on the website. It's www baseqamp.com. But BaseQamp is written with a ‘Q’. And I would like to mention why I did that because it's with a ‘Q’, it's a circle. And for me it stands for the eye of your own storm. Because when I was a young kid, I always thought that it was a big storm in my head. So busy and sometimes it make me crazy. But now I know I can go to the eye of my own storm and this is my heart and there's no wind over there. It's silence, it's all love. And we all have this eye of your own storm. So if you're in a storm right now, you can go to the eye of your storm by breath, work by relaxation, stress regulation, and we can all do it. And that's the beautiful thing about it.
Speaker 1 (01:16:47):
And something else I learned from you is you do not have to be a soldier to have a war zone in your head. And these tools are available to all of us. So I look forward on the next LifeWise podcast to introducing you to Maxime who works very closely with Frits. Thank you very much, Frits. I look forward to hearing more from you soon.